Mansfield Park: Love It or Loathe It? - a Janeite conversation

Time for round 3! 
I hope you guys are enjoying our little Janeite conversations (and I hope you've noticed that commenting on them gets you bonus points in a number of the giveaways... ;P). But either way, it's time for another one. This time, we're taking on the book that people either love to defend or love to hate.

I asked:

MISTY: Alright, ladies, as we've seen so far in all of the Mansfield discussions, this is probably Austen's most polarizing book - where does every body fall?
NANCY: HAH! I am so far into the loathing side that I’ve only skimmed the second half of the book. (Yes, that’s my Janeite confession.) I think the difficulty is the characters. Most of them are really, genuinely unlikeable. Fanny is one of the few who isn’t flat-out unpleasant, and she is too passive for most readers to root for. Edmund... but I’ve written an entire post ranting about him.

MISTY:  You don't say... ;)

ALEXA: Well, I adore Mansfield Park.
MISTY: See? Polarizing.
ALEXA: Though it's the gloomiest of Austen's novels (and the most resembling a Victorian one), it's also the meatiest, and every time I read it I'm astounded by the scope of the undertaking. The book is endlessly complex, as are the reactions of readers to it. For example, while I feel an innate impulse to protect Fanny, who I think resembles Elizabeth Bennet far more than her detractors will admit, I can't stand Edmund, who I think the most infuriating of Austen's many provoking heroes (Edward Ferrars coming in a close second).
CAROL: Jane Austen was a master of comparison. She presented her case by pitting characters with good judgment and values against characters with unsound judgment and/or values. In my opinion, the cast of characters in Mansfield Park is a bit too heavily weighted on the side of flawed judgment. MP is a story I can definitely appreciate, but has never been one of my favorites.

JUNE: “Loathe” is a strong word, but I do dislike Mansfield Park. Many of the characters fail to grow – Lady Maria Bertram, Mrs. Norris, Maria Bertram, the Rushworths, and Mary Crawford. I see the orphaned Henry Crawford as a tragic character; could he have been satisfied with the conquest of Fanny’s affections, there would have been every probability of success and felicity for him. And the novel mentions only once that Mansfield Park was supported by slavery in Antigua. Slavery!

SALLY: I think Jane said it herself, it is not as entertaining as Pride and Prejudice or Sense and Sensibility. I suspect the dark undertones tend to put people off. Can’t really say I’ve re-evaluated my stand because unlike some I’ve never loved nor loathed it. Because people on the whole consider serious subjects to be more ‘literary’ than light hearted ones Mansfield Park is considered by many Austen’s masterpiece. I don’t agree. Her real gift was making the everyday lives of her characters interesting and fun.
MISTY: I'd absolutely agree with that, Sally.
DEBORAH: I’m not sure I actually do fall into one of these camps. I think MP is an incredible book, but I don’t have quite the passionate love for it that I do for Persuasion, Emma and Pride and Prejudice. I see what a monumental work it is, I think I understand what Austen is trying to do in it, I admire her artistry immensely – but I just can’t help finding Fanny somewhat thin gruel. 

MISTY: Oh, that is SUCH a good way to explain her!
DEBORAH: Not self-righteous, or priggish, or manipulative, or any of the other things people throw at her – just not that much fun to hang out with for 400 pages. When Sir Thomas is trying to bully her into marrying Henry, and she can’t bring herself to point out that, about ten minutes ago, Henry was breaking the hearts of both Maria and Julia, I just want to scream in frustration.
MISTY: God, yes.
DEBORAH: And yet. . .The other day, I was keeping my 76-year-old mother company during a long emergency room visit, and, whipping out my Kindle, I suggested that I read something aloud. Pride and Prejudice, maybe? No, she said, pick one I don’t know as well. How about Mansfield Park? So we whiled away the next few hours reading the first chapters of MP, and I saw again how amazing it is – the witty turns of phrase, the way a whole gallery of people comes to life in just a few short strokes, the beautiful and moving delineation of Edmund’s kindness to the 10-year-old Fanny (which is why you’re going to forgive him when he behaves like such a clueless jerk for the rest of the book). It’s extraordinary. And we hadn’t even gotten to the Crawfords yet – two of Austen’s most fascinating characters, in my opinion. So I end up where I always do when I talk about an Austen novel: feeling that I really need to read it again.
MONICA: I lean towards the not liking as much side, but I don’t loathE it. There’s a dark side to it with the plantation background that makes it different from Austen’s other works. I find it puzzling that she can produce two feisty heroines like Elizabeth Darcy and Emma Woodhouse and then come up with someone like Fanny.
MISTY: Totally agree. And I can't help but wonder which she prized more...
MONICA: Whenever I pick it up, I become aware of the cultural gap between Jane Austen’s world and ours. This is where we part ways. To my mind, Fanny is a pre-Victorian heroine, a sign of things to come. She’s morally upright which is great but I get impatient with her holier-than-thou attitude. It’s funny because when you look at the actual Victorian heroines that have stood the test of time like Jane Eyre, Catherine Earnshaw (Wuthering Heights), Maggie Tulliver (Mill on the Floss) and Becky Sharp (Vanity Fair), they’re all rebels. To me Fanny is like St. John Rivers in Jane Eyre – a little bit too cold for my liking.
MISTY: I don't know that I've ever been able to quite peg it in the way you just have, Monica.
MONICA: Having said that, I know some people like Diana Birchall think of her as a feminist heroine, which is an interesting take. I suppose generally I’m sitting on the fence and whistling while watching the other parties hurl abuse at one another.
CASSANDRA: I fall almost in the middle, but perhaps leaning more towards loathe. I don't hate the book per se, just find it a harder read than Jane Austen's other stories. I find Fanny too colourless to empathise with. I feel I ought to re- read it now I have watched two TV adaptations as sometimes that helps me with getting into the book (a method I employ with some Dickens novels).
KARA: I regret to say that I merely LIKE Mansfield Park. I can see the value of the story and the struggle it must have been for Fanny to be raised in a family, but was not fully included in and by that family. She is certainly not a favorite heroine, but I think you can find traces of heart and soul in her.
LAURIE: I used to dislike Mansfield Park, but I have come to admire its artistry, its suspense, and the complexity of its characters, especially Henry Crawford and Mary Crawford. Here are antagonists who have such a blend of ruthlessness and charm that they are simply fascinating to watch. My problem with the book was/is the heroine, Fanny Price. I used to think of her as a prude, but I have come to admire her astonishing strength of character and ability to withstand pressure, even from those she is dependent on. Despite her timidity and low self-esteem, she is unbending when it comes to resisting anything she knows to be morally wrong, and I can't help but admire that.
MISTY: I think that's the place I'm at with it now, Laurie. I respect it - it fascinates me - but I don't know that I can ever love it.

ALEXA: In many ways, it's the dissatisfaction this novel inspires that keeps me coming back to it. I know the ending will always be the same, but I keep trying to find within the plot a greater sense of peace with it. I love Mansfield Park because of the challenges it poses: because I'm forever reevaluating my response to it.

LAURIE: Thankfully, Fanny's not perfect; she suffers the agonies of jealousy over her rival in love just like any girl. But I'd still likely have more fun hanging with the wisecracking Mary Crawford than listening to Fanny rhapsodize about the glories of nature, even though I admire and agree with every word. Edmund is also problematic; yes, he's a very decent human being, but he's the sort of buttoned-up Mr. Holier-than-thou whom you just want to get drunk till he loosens up and makes a fool of himself. And enjoys it. But he'll never do that.
MISTY: Yes! It's sort of like, if Mary was the main character of Pride and Prejudice instead of Lizzie! It would be entirely different, just having it be from that buttoned-up perspective. And I think it'd end with the same level of dissatisfaction for us... Anyone else?
ALYSSA: I'd honestly say that I come down in the middle. Maybe because I identify with Fanny Price. But if I had to guess what prompts a negative reaction from others, I'd say that while Fanny stays true to herself, that means that she must deny every bit of fun the others indulge in, and even then, she doesn't really come to a very happy ending. After all, Edmund was seduced (to a point) by Mary Crawford, and while he found his way back to her, she must live with that knowledge, as well as the unsavory truths about the rest of the family. Whereas in most Austen novels, I'm inclined to like most of the characters, I really, truly only like Fanny in Mansfield Park. And Edmund a little bit. That makes a difference.
MISTY: A big difference.
MARIA: I like Mansfield Park, though not as much as other Austen works. I think people dislike Fanny Price as a heroine. Compared to Austen’s other heroines, she is more passive and more a helpless victim than other heroines. She quiet and meek and does not have the impact on her word like the others do. It is hard to want to be like her. Even so, each time I read it or watch the movies I discover a new layer in the story. Most recently I was struck by the helplessness of Fanny’s situation and how easily her uncle could have send her away into destitution without a second thought for her. She was utterly dependent, something I think that does not resonate well with modern readers.
MISTY: That's one of the things I find so interesting - the more I feel myself wanting to rattle her, the more I find I go back and make excuses for her, and feel like she couldn't really be any other way...And Jessica? You look like you're champing at the bit, there...
JESSICA: Loathe! One word: Edmund. I can forgive quite a lot about Mansfield Park and I understand the way Fanny is...the poor dear didn’t have much of a choice in her situation. Her resemblance to a wet dishrag isn’t really her fault. But Edmund just brings out the rage in me. Seriously, he makes me want to gouge out my eyes with a dull spoon.
MISTY: Tell us how you really feel. ;)
JESSICA: How much do I hate him? I once went on an Instagram rant on The Suckage of Edmund Bertram...
MISTY: ... I kinda love you right now.

On that note, let us know what you think of Mansfield Park in the comments - are you a love or a loathe? And has your opinion of it changed any?

Participants in this discussion:
Alexa Adams, author of the "A Tale of Less Pride and Prejudice" series
Carol Cromlin, author of Fitzwilliam Darcy such as I was
Monica Fairview, author of The Other Mr Darcy, The Darcy Cousins, et al.
Alyssa Goodnight, author of Austentatious, Austensibly Ordinary, et al.
Maria Grace, author of the Given Good Principles series
Cassandra Grafton, author of A Fair Prospect
Jessica Grey, author of Attempting Elizabeth
Nancy Kelley, author of the Brides of Pemberely series
Kara Louise, author of Only Mr Darcy Will Do, Pirates and Prejudice, et al.
Sally Smith O'Rourke, author of The Man Who Loved Jane Austen
Laurie Viera Rigler, author of Confessions of a Jane Austen Addict and Rude Awakenings of a Jane Austen Addict
June Williams, co-author of Headstrong Girls.
and Deborah Yaffe, author of Among the Janeites

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